RP: Your role at JOYN isn’t something you’d done before joining the company. What was it like learning those new skills?

ZT: At the time I started I had total imposter syndrome, like, ‘What am I doing?!’. Also being very aware of being white and female and outside of the culture in some senses, in spite of having lived in India for over 30 years. But in some ways it worked to my advantage because I knew nothing and had everything to learn. So I learnt a lot! I went into the production unit and said ‘I have this idea… is it possible?’ and it pushed people and became this collaborative effort because of my limitations and our different skill sets. As I look back I can see that that sense of collaboration was, and is, what it’s all about.

RP: What role does creativity play in your daily life?

ZT: I think I always find a way to be creative, even in the lulls. I took up weaving recently — there was this big loom at work and I took it home and started weaving — it’s all therapy, really. I’m not very good at being in the moment so it’s good for me. I’ve always really appreciated textile and design and art, and always had this bent towards creativity and tried to do stuff with my hands since I was young. I have another background in music so it was always going to be design or music — I initially went with music and toured with a band for a while and organised creative events where we did music and poetry and workshops and that sort of thing. It’s creativity or nothing for me — it’s an outlet for expression, I have to or I’ll go mad!

RP: How do you overcome creative blocks?

ZT: It’s a real tough one and show’s itself in different ways with different artforms. Like with songwriting, when I hit a wall, I just want to smash my guitar and say ‘That’s it, I’m done!’. But with other stuff — like weaving — I find it really intuitive, so if I hit a wall I think ‘no I need to finish this, even if it sucks and even if I don’t like it in the end, it’s the process that’s important and not the outcome’.

RP: It’s such a different slant on a creative process when you’re attaching to an outcome, thinking ‘I’ve got to sell this, what will people think of it?’…

ZT: Absolutely. Previously I was all about ‘how can it be the best, how will it be seen by others’ — it’s so hard to get out of that mindset of how the final product will be seen, how it can be sold and thinking about how it’s going to be validated by other people. All these thoughts go through your head. But I know that if I can get out of that zone and focus on the fact that this is good for me and I need to do it because I can find myself in it, I can overcome the blocks much better, one step at a time.

RP: What’s your personal definition of empowerment? What does that word mean to you?

ZT: I’ve gone round in circles about this because it’s been misused a lot. When the word ‘empowerment’ is used it can sometimes indicate a power imbalance. I don’t think anyone can really ‘empower’ somebody else, I think it has to come from within. I think it’s more like being a friend, and when you’re being a friend to somebody and you’re seeing and hearing each other mutually then you’re both going to rise. If you’re in it together then you’re empowering each other — it’s more mutual and leaves no room for inequality, I would say.

RP: When do you feel most empowered?

ZT: When I’ve pushed through something that I didn’t allow myself to do before. Where I feel like I just can’t do it or I’m not good enough. My husband is really good at asking the right questions in those moments, helping me realise I can do it and it’s not impossible. When I overcome things like that then I feel empowered.

RP: You’ve talked about togetherness being conducive to mutual empowerment. What’s the best piece of advice you’ve been given about working together and collaborating with others?

ZG: I’m not sure about advice specifically, but I’ve learned over time about when to take the lead, when to step back, and choose your collaborators consciously. If you can go in with the mindset of knowing that you have something to learn here, with an open attitude, it’s probably going to go much better for you.

RP: HEY GIRL believes that creativity is an incredibly powerful force in the world. How do you see that power being harnessed currently and what impact do you want it to have?

ZT: I’m always blown away by how impactful creativity is in terms of changing the world. I remember watching a documentary (I can’t remember what it’s called now!) about how a place in America was transformed through the arts, putting art everywhere and the act of creative expression changing things for people. We often talk about ‘what is it about art that’s so transformational for people?’ — and it’s often intangible. But we’ve all experienced it in our own lives — listening to music or seeing a picture or photo and something changes.

I think it just needs to keep happening. Art is this explosion of everything that you can’t say, and often it’s most powerful when it’s expressed by people who have been suppressed or haven’t had the opportunity to be heard — it’s powerful and completely beautiful.